Hot Topics

Responses to:
The Fair Labor Standards Act and Other Obstacles to Progress

Submitted 1 March 2006 by Jayne Cravens, Bonn Germany
The head of the IT department where I worked said it was impossible to network a Macintosh with IBM/Clones. So I posted to a discussion group for women IT workers in Austin and had a file-folder full of testimonials of how easy it is to do. But I didn't just present these to the IT head -- I presented it in a meeting with his supervisor as well. Suddenly, it was totally possible to do.

For volunteer managers who can't get their web masters to upload the information they need, I recommend documenting all conversations for future reference, AND starting their own web sites for such. Don't ask, just do it, with the help of volunteers. Once it's running, ask the web master to link to it. Either he/she will, or he/she will finally get around to uploading your information to the central web site.

Submitted 9 February 2006 by Barb Patricio, Volunteer Management Grad, Edmonton , Alberta Canada
Just a thought from Canada.
I wonder if some of the pronouncements about volunteers doing things that paid staff do stems from confusing the distinction between: 1) a volunteer doing something that a paid staff person also does (a la Susan's example of volunteer doctors working overseas along side paid staff) and 2) the volunteer management principle and union regulation that volunteers can not take away a job that a paid person is doing. If my non-profit has 2 paid nurses, I can't fire one of them when I realize that I can find 2 halftime volunteers. I wonder how much the fear of job loss influences organizations.

Susan responds to Sam's query, 8 February 2006
I’m pleased that readers are finding this Hot Topic useful, as my goal is always to help volunteerism folks be effective and more vocal advocates.

In her posted response on 2/2, Sam Elliston asked me to “clarify” her confusion about being “told by a lawyer who works in our field that the FLSA specifically says volunteers cannot do the same work as paid staff.”  This is exactly the kind of thing my essay addresses – that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.  A competent lawyer would examine the implications of each specific volunteer position, not make blanket statements. 

How can there be a universal prohibition that “volunteers cannot do the same work as paid staff” when it is self-evident, as I said in the Hot Topic, that every single activity done somewhere by an employee is done somewhere else by a volunteer, and vice versa?  Under this lawyer’s opinion, what WOULD volunteers be able to do? 

The real issue is:  Volunteers IN OUR setting should not do the exact same things as employees IN OUR setting.  That makes sense – a blanket, generic limitation does not.

The “workers compensation” question has generally been decided by court cases and it is extremely rare for any volunteer to get such compensation, except for the legitimate case of firefighters and other emergency personnel doing quasi-government work.  In a particular agency, there may also be labor union contracts in force with anti-volunteer language but, again, this is not a matter of law but of limited negotiation skills on the part of the executives who developed the contract language.

Submitted on 8 February 2006 by Hilary Roberts, PLNJ Inc., President, Keyport/NJ USA
All too often it has been my experience that non profits practice vague management styles for the sole purpose of bending rules as deemed necessary. A BIG problem for me in several job settings. I was a Volunteer Manager who attended more workshops, pursued certification and logged hundreds of hours in field experience. The value of my training left with me.

• There is plenty of criticism to go around on this hot topic.
• We can't blame the professionals who are hired if the agency calling upon their skills do not disclose the real agenda.
• We can't blame volunteers if they are given no authority to voice concerns in impactful forums.
• We can't blame staff if they fear dismissal for speaking up.

Instead of blame, instead of empowering the naysayers we each should take an active role in writing the manuals that are long overdue on the topics of legal guidelines, insurance policies, internet protocols (just to name a few). ONE guidepost that every Board Member, manager, consultant, publisher, employee and volunteer can point to for answers.

If we, representing smart nonprofits, continue to accept the current model as "best practices" we have ourselves to blame.

Submitted on 7 February 2006 by Nicolette Ryan, United Way of the Greater Dayton Area, Community Volunteer Liaison, Dayton, OH USA
Thank you so much for this article! As a volunteer management professional, I constantly work to create a better environment for volunteers in nonprofit organizations. My "why" questions to answers of "no" may not be popular, but I feel they've helped me acheive more in my two years of experience than many professionals who have been in the business for ten!

I strongly encourage other managers of volunteers to keep asking "why" and offering alternative ways of solving problems... Nothing worth doing is ever easy!

Submitted on 3 February 2006 by Martin J Cowling, People First -Total Solutions, CEO, Melbourne Australia
Bravo...Brilliant article! I take my hat off on this. There is a disturbing global trend fueled by fear and the trend of turning volunteer management into a quasi HR stream.

If I can put a blatant plug ..this is aligned to the topic we have for the Second Australasian Advanced Volunteer Managment Retreat in August 2006: Volunteer Management Have We Come Too Far. We'd love input up to the retreat and we will be distributing the results of the discussions there. Hopefully as leaders in the region, we will make some stands on this issue.

Submitted on 2 February 2006 by Don Rhodes, Don Rhodes & Associates Limited, Advocate, Central Otago New Zealand
You are so right about 'so-called experts' basically giving you take-it-or-leave-it advice........and then getting bitter and twisted if you do not take that advice.

If it is any consolation to volunteer organisations, this occurs in a slightly different way in big business as well. How often do we become aware of a Board of Directors agreeing to some multi-million dollar IT expense based solely on a fast talking sales pitch and backed by the accountant or whoever, yet demand a detailed cost analysis of the proposed purchase of fresh water dispensers for staff costing a couple of thousand dollars.

You are so right and I applaud your article. Let's hope everyone takes notice. Cheers. Don Rhodes.

Submitted on 2 February 2006 by Sarah (Sam) Elliston, New Thought Unity Center, Volunteer Coordinator, Cincinnati, Ohio USA
This is so timely, Susan. I have been trying to understand the issue since I was told by a lawyer who works in our field that the FLSA specifically says volunteers cannot do the same work as paid staff. She tied it into of the problems of workers compensation.

I have tried without success to have somebody show me the part of the law that actually says that volunteers can't do the work of paid staff.

Yet, I hear people say it authoritatively- so I am confused by your department of labor quote- delighted, because I have always felt that what you say is correct, but confused.

Can you clarify?

Submitted on 2 February 2006 by Debbie, Manager, Volunteer Resources, Ontario Canada
Congratulations for inspiring myself, and many other Managers in Volunteer Resources to become advocates within our organizations! I have come across many "no" people in my career and at times, have challenged them. Looking back, I gave up the fight too many times and the consequences resulted in not using volunteers to meet human resource needs and organizational mission and vision. I won't step down the next time I meet a "no" person. I'll ask questions, conduct research, identify other organizations doing what I proposed and involve volunteers as advocates. I can't wait to offer the IT staff a qualified volunteer to help them with their workload.... maybe I'll be able to realize the online orientation I've been dreaming about. Thank you!

Submitted on 2 February 2006 by CM, Volunteer Coordinator, Pennsylvania
Thank you for this article! It is wonderful. I am happy to know that I am not the only person frustrated with the "no people." Thank you again so much!

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